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Comments posted on 2005-11-01
SP,
I think the South Indian languages have rich literature. I would like to put a short, modern Telgu poem into English free verse. If you are interested in poetry, please send me a Telgu poem with literal translation into English, line by line, with punctuation.
Cheers
WW
Thus the basic principles of democracy, freedom and social tolerance are absolute necessities for any society to function peacefully.
Rudra,
Thanks for your comment. I have more belief in these basic principles than any form of ideology. As my great leader Annadurai said "People's verdict is Lord Siva's judgment". We need to respect and believe them. At the same time, we need to respect the existence of all forms of ideologies who believe in democratic values.
Why must there be any requirement to improve socio-economic aspects of a society to authorize a quest for truth? As far as cultural aspects go -- more and detailed information about the Cultural history of a civilization is definitely enriching (or at least enlightening).
I was 100% sure about this question. So I have the answer. A quest for truth in any field (Vedic age or Tamil Sangam age), no pre-requirement such as improving socio-economic conditions of a society is needed. But we raise such demands from Vedic studies because the Vedas governed the socio-economic aspects of this society for atleast 2000 years. Considering the current political situation of the country and the nexus between Vedic scholars & Sangh Parivar, such demands are necessary to safeguard this society from vested interests. What is wrong in ensuring our socio-economic security ?
PS.
Desi-Pardesi, Thanks for your comment.
ssd - Thanks for your evaluation. I will try to improve. :)
PS.
Pradip,
Why isn't the Congress Party and the left now removing the Rajiv Gandhi bill?
In Danial Latifi vs Union of India case, a judgment was delivered by the Supreme Court on that the 1986 Muslim Women Rights Act (which was passed by Rajiv Gandhi) was not unconstitutional. There are cases where Muslim women received alimony after 1986 using this act. This judgment can be used as a guideline for future cases. There is no need for removing that particular bill. But this law alone is not adequate. Muslim women need more protection and equal rights. The AIDWA is fighting for the rights of Muslim women.
Second, as early as in 1999, Mr. Digvijay Singh has publicly apologized for Shah Bano case. So the Congress and the Left would not have rejected if BJP has intended to pass a bill for the protection of Muslim women. BJP did not even initiate the process. But it got everything (as much as it can) out of this episode. That was my main contention.
Read the blog carefully. I was not biased about the Shah Bano episode.
PS.
If caste discrimination is driving conversions from Hinduism to all other religions then why is it that Christian percentage in India has dropped from 3.1% in 1901 to 2.3 % in 2001?
Pradip,
If the Christian percentage has dropped from 3.1% in 1901 to 2.3% in 2001, then there is no/very insignificant conversion happening. Then where does the problem of religious conversion arise ? If conversions are rampant (as you and Sangh Parivar claim), this percentage should have gone way up - right ?
According to 2002 Census, the percentage of SCs and STs put together was 24.2%. Assuming that atleast 5% of SC/STs converted to Christianity, there should be atleast 1.2% increase in Christian population. So this indicates that Sangh Parivar's claims about conversions are dubious. Thanks for the statistics.
BTW, this is not the right way to look at this statistic. Conversions cant be judged just by population growth because the growth rate is influenced by various factors such as fertility rate, mortality rate, total and female literacy rates etc. The fall in percentage of Christian population indicates that the population growth rate is negative. The fall indicates that they adopt proper population control measures. The fall in population growth can be directly related to literacy rate. Let us look at the literacy rates: Hindus 65.5%, Muslims 59.5% and Christians 80.3%. And if you look at the growth rates of Christians, the growth rate was 36.0% in 1961-71 and 22.1% in 1991-01. All these numbers indicate that Christians have better socio-economic indicators than other religions.
PS.
On the other hand, Pundits have been subjected to and been targetted for the most brutal type of ethnic cleansing apartheid exclusion solely on the basis that they are not in the primitive tribal stone age "in-group". In the rest of India too, pockets of ethnic cleansing apartheid exclusion is taking place.
This was quite evident during Mau riots and Delhi serial mass murders of Oct. '05 as one more case of mafia intimidation by savage violence.
//////////////////Mau: Riot of Muslim intolerance The unexpected outbreak of organised communal rioting in the Mau district of Uttar Pradesh, leaving 12 dead and several dozens injured in over four days of uncontrolled violence, despite the organisers of the Bharat Milap procession cancelling the October 13 show in the interest of social harmony, indicates a cultural intolerance that does not bode well for India. Political parties would do well to consider if this is part of a concerted strategy to enhance the growth of minority conclaves in India by driving out native populations through the systematic use of terror, a weapon used in Assam, Kashmir, [Kerala] and other States....
police officials told the media that it was he who prevented them from taking firm action to bring the riots under control in a timely manner. ...
But the fact that Mukhtar Ansari is known to have close links with Mr. Yadav, and that this acted as a dampener on the police officials and district magistrate in the initial days of the violence, has done irrevocable damage to the Chief Minister’s prestige.
//////////////////
Patronage by CM of UP is partly the cause of this uncivilised savage Ansari to commit heinous crimes over-ruling the police, taking law into his own hands and running killling fields one more time at one more place, one more week, decade and century. CM of Kerala is another architect of ethnic cleansing. Unless we boycott the anti-Hindu business including bollywood movies/DVDs/CDs, this will never end.
White Wings says, "I appreciate your interest in my poetry translations. By the way, which is the first most beautiful language in the world?"
Set you up to ask that question, didn't I? The answer is Telugu.
Sunil V,
"I find it pretty hard to understand the obsession with ONLY linguistic paleontology when archeologically there is NOTHING to prove any emigration into south-asia."
--Linguistics play significant role(not the "only") in understanding the dynamics of evolving/dissolving civilizations and the associated cultures thereof.
This methodology is not an alternative to the absence of archeological evidence. Sometimes, the best evidence they find in archeological explorations are scripts imprinted on tangible objects. This subsequently leads scholars to decipher the scripts(abstractly) and relate them to the present form of surviving spoken languages. Thereby, they establish the connection between cultures as we have today and the ancient civilization such as harappan.Dravidian substratum resonates that connection with harappan civilization.
If this sounds as "obsession" that you find "pretty hard to understand", then you need to refrain from venturing into the subject. You made up your mind. It will do no good to bark at your opponent. Should you want to argue your point, come up with better arguments than reflecting your mind's pre-occupation on putting down Anand Nair. Calling your opponents' knowledge on the subject as "ZERO" , whilst you bring nothing to the table, infact shows your allergic reaction to anything that opposes Aryan supremacy theories.Barking as a last resort does more damage to your credibility than it does to the opponent.
Aryan supremacy theories based on indus-vedic-harappan-sarswati-sindu conglomerate of civilizations (read "hindu" civilization to make it easier for your religious POV) float around more fiercely than "Dravidian Theories".
The psychology of identity disorder behind insecure mindset of nomadic cultures resonates with the "aryan" ideologies. They always feel the necessity to assert their superior racial identity on the native subjects they migrate to live with. And these ideologies are much more aggressive, divisive and proven to have innoculative characteristic of any fascistic political ideology when compared to the academicians study of distinct dravidian culture and the theories that surround aryan migration.
Needless to say, there are anti-aryan-emigration theories that make some valid points too. Get over B.B.Lal please! The brigadier camp might find Advani and Vajpayee doing "namaste",or rabri devi's mang-ka-sindoor, as evidence pointing to ancient vedic culture. He may argue, getting high on nationalistic dope perhaps, that remnants of harappan civilization are not found in south india. If "Harappa" was something that one can take in a saddle bag loaded on the back of a unicorn to wherever they went, surely he would have found it somewhere down south. But if tireless excavations point to specific geographical location as a "base" for harrappan civilization, then it will do good to realize that it does not cover entire "Aryan" peninsula either.
None of these aryan-dravidian and alien-indigenous theories are proven beyond argument.You wanna debate on these theories? Do it without taking any exclusive position. At the end of the day, it boils down to what theory appeals to you more, than what is factual.
Dr.DP
(Straight from Unicorn's mouth of Mohenjo Dharo)
Satya,
I appreciate your interest in my poetry translations. By the way, which is the first most beautiful language in the world?
I love poetry in all languages.
WW
A very nice realistic presentation. I never had this Layoff f experience, nor met anyone who had the same. Now, After reading this blog, i can really imagine, how this would be like.
Most of the people, one meet in day-to-day activities, respect one's role/position, and not the person as such. As long as that is understood, the pain can be minimized.
Again, The Literature is fantastic.